Search This Blog

Saturday, February 8, 2025

2/8/25 Report - Lion in Heraldry and Shields on Cobs. Another Find with Lion. Using AI for Metal Detecting Related Applications.

 

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of the Treasure Beaches Report.


Piece of Metal About the Size of a Quarter Found by Bill T.

Yesterday I posted a piece of silver with the figure of a lion on it.  It reminded me of this older find made by detectorist Bill T. down by Jupiter.  It is about the size of a quarter.  Although it was not identified, it was thought that it could be a large button like a livery button.  See The Treasure Beaches Report Direct From Florida's Treasure Coast.: 9/22/11 Report - Mystery Object From Jupiter & Odyssey Marine


 Like the item shown yesterday, this find also shows a lion in the stattant position unlike those typically shown on Spanish Colonial cobs, which show the lion in the rampant position.   In heraldry, the position of the lion is significant.

Below is an illustration showing some of the most common stances, or attitudes, along with the names of each.

Source: Heraldic Lion Positions & Terminology Explained - FHF.com

The source shows additional attitudes as well.

The attitude displayed by the find shown at the top of this post shows the lion in the stattant attitude, like all of those shown in the above illustration.  The find I showed yesterday shows the lion facing the opposite direction, which is less common.  Lions facing towards the viewers left is called dexter, while those facing right are sinister.  

Most heraldic lions face towards the viewers left or the lions right (called dexter). The item shown yesterday is sinister, facing to the viewers right.  That seems unusual.  I don't know if it is significant at all, but the dexter position was considered to be associated with honor.  I don't know if that is significant or an insignificant ornament.  The lion might have some significance, but might be nothing more than a decorative item.

You are uncourtly familiar with the shield of Castile and Leon, which is displayed on many Spanish Colonial cobs.

Source: Wikipedia.


The lion design is attributed to Alfonso VII, who became king of Castile and Leon in 1126. The castle symbol is attributed to his grandson Alfonso VIII.  In 1230, Ferdinand III united the two kingdoms and quartered the arms as a symbol of the union. Until the sixteenth century, a full castle, with walls and three towers, rather than the current town design, was used. (Wikipedia).

I've posted about the shields before, and shown examples found on the Treasure Coast.

For example, the post that also shows the shields of Bourban and Hapsburg, which can be used to identify cobs.  Treasure Coast finds were shown as examples.  Here is that link.


Here is one more of several old posts on the shield designs found on cobs.


---

Back on the topic of yesterday's silver lion mystery find, Mark G. has been exploring AI for metal detecting related research.  He queried Copilot on the mystery object.  He described the object and queried Copilot about the item.   Below is some of what Copilot gave.


Copilot:

Thank you for that detail! The ornate edge adds more clues. Given the combination of a lion in a rampant position, a curved shape, and ornate edge, here are some likely possibilities:

  1. Pendant or Medallion: Ornate edges were common in pendants or medallions, especially those worn by nobles or officers. The design would make it visually striking when worn around the neck.
  2. Lid of a Decorative Box: The curved shape and ornate edge could suggest it was the lid of a small decorative box, such as a snuff box or a jewelry box. These were often highly ornate to reflect the wealth and status of the owner.
  3. Signet Ring: While less common, some signet rings had a flat, ornate top with a curved inner surface. The design would make it both functional and a status symbol.
  4. Badge or Brooch: Similar to pendants, badges or brooches were worn on clothing and could feature detailed designs and ornate edges. They were often used to signify rank or affiliation with a noble house.

To narrow it down further:

  • Examine for Attachment Points: Look closely at the edges for any remnants of loops, hinges, or clasps.
  • Check for Inscriptions: Any letters or numbers around the ornate edge could provide additional clues.
  • Compare with Known Artifacts: Research similar items from the 1715 Treasure Fleet or Spanish colonial period to see if any match your piece.

If you have more specific details or another angle of the photo, that could help refine the identification even more. In the meantime, the ornate edge and detailed lion already suggest it's a significant and valuable historical item. It’s exciting to think about the story behind such a unique artifact!

 


When he first described the lion in the Passant position, he got the following.


Copilot:

Great detail! If the lion on your artifact is in the passant position (walking with one forepaw raised), this could further refine our identification:

  1. Heraldic Meaning: The passant lion is another common motif in heraldry, symbolizing vigilance and courage. This stance was widely used on coats of arms, coins, and jewelry to signify noble qualities.
  2. Artifacts:
    • Jewelry: Medallions, pendants, and rings could feature a lion passant, often indicating affiliation with a noble house or royal lineage.
    • Military Insignia: Badges or brooches worn by military officers might display the lion passant as part of their regimental insignia.
    • Decorative Objects: Items like snuff boxes, seals, or silverware could be adorned with this motif, reflecting the owner's status.

Given your artifact's curved shape and ornate edge, it's possible it was a part of:

  • A Medallion or Pendant: Especially if it was designed to be worn and displayed prominently.
  • A Brooch or Badge: Used to fasten clothing or as a display of rank and affiliation.
  • A Decorative Lid or Cover: From a box or other personal item, designed to impress.

The presence of a lion passant narrows it down to items with heraldic significance, typically owned by individuals of high status or importance. This detailed depiction suggests craftsmanship aimed at both aesthetic appeal and symbolic representation.

I provide that as an example of how Copilot might be useful in searching items. You might try it for yourself.  I'm sure that just like doing Google searches, there is a probably some element of skill in querying the system.  

It seems to me that Copilot did provides some useful ideas for consideration.  And to be fair, it was going from a verbal description, and any human would have difficulty identifying an item like that from a verbal description.  Overall, Copilot and AI does show some promise for researching the identity off finds.

I'm sure we will find more uses for AI and use AI more effectively as detectorists gain experience using the available systems.

---

Beautiful weather but not much surf.

Good hunting,

Treasureguide@comcasst.net

---

at